tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22267600.post115893110077610653..comments2023-07-20T10:30:43.820-05:00Comments on Musings of a Minor Mennonite: Ignominious Close to Torture WeekDan Shttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08387429717617727003noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22267600.post-1171487298509438582007-02-14T15:08:00.000-06:002007-02-14T15:08:00.000-06:00Brownie, Lincoln never said any such thing. It wa...Brownie, Lincoln never said any such thing. It was entirely fabricated by a wingnut who has taken responsibility for the fabrication. See <BR/>http://www.factcheck.org/article415.html<BR/><BR/>----------------------------------<BR/>Brownie said... <BR/>This really has nothing to do with this particular post, but it was interesting so I thought I'd share.<BR/><BR/>""Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." <BR/>--Abraham LincolnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22267600.post-1160017138645364112006-10-04T21:58:00.000-05:002006-10-04T21:58:00.000-05:00Dan--A former Wheaton student, studying theology a...Dan--<BR/><BR/>A former Wheaton student, studying theology at Princeton, has moved away from evangelicalism, and into an articulate space--about torture, about the problems that evangelicals face, and a number of other concerns. His <A HREF="http://fireandrose.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow"> blog</A> is worth reading.<BR/><BR/>dwdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16418552523160257461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22267600.post-1159211618605247892006-09-25T14:13:00.000-05:002006-09-25T14:13:00.000-05:00Concerning Lincoln, he also said:"My paramount obj...Concerning Lincoln, he also said:<BR/><BR/><I>"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." <BR/><BR/>The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388. <BR/></I><BR/><BR/>So, he wasn't always right.<BR/><BR/>Also, one could argue who exactly is damaging morale and undermining the military in our current situation. I would think an unnecessary, immoral war does more to undermine us than principled opposition.Dan Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08387429717617727003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22267600.post-1159211110805155042006-09-25T14:05:00.000-05:002006-09-25T14:05:00.000-05:00I've been thinking some lately about the Waco deba...I've been thinking some lately about the Waco debacle, as an example of the cycle of violence. Maybe I'll do a full post on it.<BR/><BR/>The gist of it though is that Waco begat Oklahoma City. No one would argue that the Murrow building deserved to be bombed, but many argued that if Waco had been handled properly, the bombing wouldn't have happened. Also note that Reno immediately took responsibility for her mistakes, something not a single person in the Bush admin has yet done. No wait, Richard Clarke did, but was then demonized by the right.<BR/><BR/>But in answer to your question, I don't agree with Reno's tactics, but there are differences, in that the Waco tactic was employed on the field of battle. Bush wants to apply the same tactic to individual prisoners of war, which is illegal, in the same way that shooting someone in battle is not considered illegal, but is when done in a jail cell.Dan Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08387429717617727003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22267600.post-1159203119030430432006-09-25T11:51:00.000-05:002006-09-25T11:51:00.000-05:00This really has nothing to do with this particular...This really has nothing to do with this particular post, but it was interesting so I thought I'd share.<BR/><BR/>""Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." <BR/>--Abraham Lincoln<BR/><BR/><BR/>&%#?! Republican Facist!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22267600.post-1159201976389098732006-09-25T11:32:00.000-05:002006-09-25T11:32:00.000-05:00I was wondering if you see any difference (moral a...I was wondering if you see any difference (moral and/or legal) between the "torture" of keeping people awake for long periods with loud rock music in an effort to prevent the loss of innocent civilian life at the hands of terrorists, and the use of the exact same "tactic" by the Clinton Administration's Janet Reno to end the Waco debacle. Whose residents, it might be added, met a horrible fiery death.<BR/><BR/>Any difference? Just curious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com