Here is Bush on the foiled terrorist plot yesterday:
The recent arrests that our fellow citizens are now learning about are a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to -- to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation.I’m not sure which is worse, whether he still actually believes they hate us for our freedom, or that instead of honest leadership, we get partisan talking points.
The -- this country is safer than it was prior to 9/11. We've taken a lot of measures to protect the American people. But obviously we're still not completely safe, because there are people that still plot and people who want to harm us for what we believe in. It is a mistake to believe there is no threat to the United States of America. And that is why we have given our officials the tools they need to protect our people.The question isn’t whether law enforcement should have tools to protect people. It is whether they should follow the law in doing so. I think they should, but I guess that makes me a weak-kneed traitor. :)
And, does he really believe there are people who think there is “no threat to the US”? No one believes this. Quite the opposite in fact, among his detractors. His policies and actions have ensured that we will have attacks against our country for generations to come. There are far more people in the world that hate and want to harm us now, based on our cowboy diplomacy over the last five years, especially since he was re-elected.
People don’t want to harm us because of what we believe. We believe a lot of the same things than Canadians believe, but Islamic fundamentalists are not targeting Canada. They attack us for lots of reasons, most of which have to do with our policies and actions. Until we understand that, our enemies will continue to grow, not shrink.
*Update*: A kind reader helpfully pointed out that there *was* a plot this year to blow up a bunch of stuff in Canada by Islamic Terrorists. Oops. Hey, I meant Sweden. Canada was just a typo. :)
Nonetheless, the larger point remains: It is our actions and policies that really matter. They are what make the difference between a few crazies frothing at mouth and an organized army of people dedicated to our destruction. We just play into the hands of the crazies when we invade and occupy countries, which allows them to convince more people to join them. We must "drain the swamps of injustice", as Jim Wallis would say, if we really want long term peace and security. Pretending we will be safe if we simply round up everyone who hates freedom is both dishonest and detrimental.
12 comments:
"but Islamic fundamentalists are not targeting Canada."
Oh No? Then what was this?
The group was allegedly preparing for a large-scale terrorist attack in southern Ontario, which included detonating truck bombs at at least two locations in Southern Ontario and opening fire in a crowded area. Police alleged they also made plans to storm various buildings such as the CBC broadcast building and the Canadian Parliament building, and take hostages. According to one of the suspect's lawyers, they have been accused of planning to "behead the Prime Minister", Stephen Harper, and other leaders.[1][2][3]
When are you going to stop apologizing for Islamic extremists?
What left wing liberal media source did this story come from theo? Damn media, can't believe anything you read these days. I'm not convinced by this article, can you verify the source?
*sigh* This is what is wrong with conservatism and America in general today. You can't point out that our own actions are detrimental to our long term safety without being attacked as an Islamofacist apologist. You can't point out legitimate wrongs committed by our country without being labelled a traitor. Welcome to post-Freedom America.
I don't know how you managed to glean all that from my comment... The trouble with liberals is they argue in platitudes rather than specifics. You said "fundamentalists are not targeting Canada" You are wrong and I pointed that out. Care to prove otherwise?
You are also wrong to attribute to Islamic fundamentalists a rationale for their killing: namely US foreign policy. Those who kill in the name of Allah need no reason other than the victims are jews, buddhists, and christians (infidels). But the real reason they kill is obvious: They are afraid of modernity (the US having ushered in much of it); they are afraid of independent women (and female sexuality), and they are simply unwilling to share a world with those who aren't.
*Absolute intolerance* thy name is Allah. Purify the world of Jews and homosexuals and liberal apologists like you. Purify, purify, purify... that my friend is their self-described agenda.
"*Update*: A kind reader helpfully pointed out that there *was* a plot this year to blow up a bunch of stuff in Canada by Islamic Terrorists. Oops. Hey, I meant Sweden. Canada was just a typo."
Wrong again, Dan.
Islamic extremists of the Salafyist variety have posted a very explicit threat to launch a wave of terrorist attacks against Sweden. The threats were posted on a number of known Islamist forums and are accompanied by rather lurid graphics including the following:
And wrong again.
Radio Islam, based in Sweden, keeps Nazi hate literature such as Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" online in several languages, including English. Should a terror attack occur in Sweden, the country may be unprepared for it.
The threats against Sweden should serve as a lesson to those who still claim that Islamic terrorism is caused by "Israeli aggression" or "American foreign policy".
Islamofascism alive and well in Sweden. Care to try again.
And one more good link:
Swedish Muslims Call For Terror Attacks Against Sweden
I'm now convinced! Thanks theo for the verification. The fact that it's all alleged doesn't matter. That "care to try again" narcissism comment makes it impossible to trump you. Theo is the real Deole. Your mode of trasportation must be a bulldozer. The only machine big and powerful enough to carry that enormous head to and fro.
Theo, you seem kinda fixated on a throw-away line. You are right that Muslim extremists exist who will hate the West no matter what we do. So what? Christian extremists exist who want to do the same thing. The issue isn't that they exist, but what kind of power they have.
My main point is that extremists gain power when our actions inflame non-extremists to be recruited, causing us to have more enemies, not less. You may think I'm a useful idiot, that's fine, but I would think the idiot most useful to Muslim extremism is one that swells their recruitment ranks.
"My main point is that extremists gain power when our actions inflame non-extremists to be recruited, causing us to have more enemies, not less. You may think I'm a useful idiot, that's fine, but I would think the idiot most useful to Muslim extremism is one that swells their recruitment ranks."
Well I guess that makes me the biggest idiot of all, since my offensive actions are swelling their ranks: I won't grow a beard and my wife won't wear a burka, and I do get a chuckle over cartoons mocking religious zealotry, and I don't support a religious state, sharia, censorship, or any other vestiges of the Dark Ages... so far, no Christians have threatened to cut off my head or blow up my office building; maybe because in the [Christian] West we see tolerance as a virtue not a weakness (though there is no tolerating Fascism which is precisely what these terrorists advocate--you can read it on their websites).
But here's where I do agree with you... In countries such as England and France where opportunities for integrating into the larger society and "moving up" in one's station are scant compared to the US, there is an uncomfortable ghettoizing of Muslims. Without economic access and grim job opportunities, young men are more susceptible to feeling marginalized and inferior, so the hatred and blame fed them by evil Mullahs in their mosques is an easier pill to swallow.
But instead of fighting against the whole Western way, they ought to fight for better access to it so that they can prosper and make the changes they want to see democratically, non-violently.
Women fought for and won the vote here and look how much has changed for them in 100 years. African Americans fought for access to education and jobs. Minorities in the US fare better than anywhere else in the world. (Read the book the Millionaire Next Door.) Immigrants and 2nd generation Americans comprise the majority of millionaires. That's unheard of in England and France, unless you are a pro-sports star.
Having access to the good life and liberal values is what diffuses fanaticism, not racism and blame in which you seem naively sympathetic. Where is your sympathy for the Muslim families who want democracy and don't want fanatics in their midst (don't want Hizbollah, don't want the Mohammad Atta's), who don't want a Taliban, who only want a future for their kids? Isn't that the torch you ought to be carrying?
When you make excuses for people who kill you give them a legitimacy they don't deserve and you make the world less safe for all those average Muslims who just want the same thing you and I want: peace.
When Bush called these killers, who want to turn the clock back to the 4th century, Islamofascists he used the correct moniker. Hitler wanted to turn the clock back too; he wanted to purify the race and the religion, but we know which way Hitler went and so too shall go they until (as Golda Meir said they start loving their children more than they hate us.)
"When you make excuses for people who kill you give them a legitimacy they don't deserve and you make the world less safe". That's a universal statement. The ultimate irony is for George W Bush to call anyone killers. George W himself when asked by an american reporter a few months ago; How many civilians have been (estimated) killed in Iraq to date? He said 30,000 approx.. In May and June alone over 6000 civilians were killed in Iraq. He still maintains the record for the most people killed by capital punishment on his meter while Govenor of Texas. Killing seems to follow the man. The night the supreme court of the United States declared George W president in 2000, I received a phone call from my 77 year old Aunt that night. Her words were; "break out the body bags, George W Bush is president". How could a 77 year old woman have such insight? An esoteric few of us knew long before 9/11, that lowering the bar for such a dangerously incompetant man would only lead to these times. It can be argued that 9/11 may never have taken place if the 2000 elections were of a different result.
"An eye for an eye, makes the world blind". There are no winners, noone more right or wrong than anyone else. Just alot of simple minded sterotypes and ignorant label's like your accusations that Dan is somehow a liberal apologist. If you knew Dan like I have known him now personally for 26+ years, you would know better than to use such nonsense. But your European and all Europeans are alike. I could pick one out of a crowd like you could pick a liberal out of a crowd. All liberals look alike too. The only difference between a Liberal and a European is Liberals pee straighter.
Tens of millions died taking out Hitler. What's your point? My friend, if you think the Islamofascists need your excuses, then you (and your Aunt) better get used to the view from inside a body bag.
We could go tit for tat forever, so I'll close on this thread with this: I think you see the terrorist problem as entirely one of Islamofacists being evil. I see it as Islamfacists being evil, AND our helping them recruit more people by not understanding how non-extremist Muslims are attracted to extremism based on our foreign policy.
You believe this makes me a naive, idiotic, weak, whatever. That's OK, I understand that having rocks thrown at you is part of it when talking politics.
I would just suggest that you consider why you believe examining our own actions and strategies is somehow being an apologist for murder.
And, because I can't resist, I've re-written one of you sentences:
When you make excuses for foreign policy that creates more enemies than it kills, you give it a legitimacy it doesn't deserve and you make the world less safe for all those people who just want the same thing you and I want: peace.
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